並前往https://www.audacy.com/podcast/%E6%AD%B9%E7%8E%A9%E8%81%8A%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82-f5540/episodes/%E6%AD%B9%E7%8E%A9%E8%81%8A%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82ep20-%E8%81%BD%E5%88%B0%E6%AD%8C%E5%B0%B1%E6%84%9F%E5%8B%95%E8%A5%BF%E6%B4%8B%E6%84%9B%E6%83%85%E9%9B%BB%E5%BD%B1%E4%B8%BB%E9%A1%8C%E6%9B%B2-1279f